S2. Ep.1: Stop Asking The Internet To Pick Your Logo w/ Amanda Shilling

Most people think branding is what you say. Amanda Shilling thinks branding is what people feel, and she has the stories to prove it. I brought Amanda on as the founder and CEO of Mint Brand Marketing, expecting a sharp conversation about marketing and brand identity. What we got was a deeper look at how leadership, culture, and customer experience quietly shape reputation long before any logo ever does its job.

We dig into the intention versus experience gap: the promise leaders think they are making versus what customers and employees actually experience. Amanda explains why marketing cannot fix a bad product, a messy team, or a broken process and why the “small stuff” is the brand. From patient journey details to building trust with clients, we talk about what makes a brand believable in real life, not just on a website.

We also get personal about hiring, transparency, personal branding on LinkedIn, and leading a team with empathy without lowering the bar. Amanda shares what changed after becoming a mom, how she protects family-first values at work, and why healthy co-parenting and real connection without phones matter when you’re building a life and a business at the same time.

If you care about brand strategy, leadership, company culture, and building a business people actually trust, hit play. If it helps, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s building, and leave a review with the biggest takeaway you’re putting into practice.

Transcript

Brand Is What People Feel

SPEAKER_04 0:00

All right, everybody, welcome back. I've been looking forward to this one. Today, I am joined by Amanda Schilling, founder and CEO of Mint Brand Marketing, and what I thought was going to be a conversation about brand turned into something more interesting. And sure, we we did talk about branding, we talked about marketing, we talked about all the things that go into building your own company and experiencing a journey that one has to getting to that point and becoming successful in that regard. But we got deeper very, very quickly, and we got into the idea that most people think brand is what you say. But in reality, brand is what people feel. And that gap between intention and experience, that's where a lot of things start to break down. So we talked about building a business. Like I said, the pressures that come with that, where people get the branding wrong, and honestly, where leaders get themselves out of alignment without even realizing it. There were a few moments in this one where I caught myself thinking, yeah, this is different, but in a good way, right? This is different in a way that from my perspective throughout our conversation was very clean, very conversational, very easy to get into. And I'm sure you guys are gonna enjoy it. So if you're into building something, leading people, or just trying to show up a little bit more intentionally in your life and be at your best when your best is required. I think this one's gonna hit the mark. So let's get into it and welcome Amanda Schilling to the Time and Energy podcast. I really am excited to have this conversation. We've been talking about it for a couple months now and trying to work out time and with kids and and work and all that other stuff. I just really appreciate you being here today.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Yeah, absolutely. So, or how did how did you know, how did you learn that you wanted to, for lack of a better way to put it, tell other people's story?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Oh my gosh. Well, I grew up writing. I remember writing poems, doing artwork, you know, kind of all of those things. And

Amanda’s Path Into Marketing

SPEAKER_00 2:16

it was in every English class I could take, every creative writing class I could take. And that really went into college as well. However, when I was in high school, it was that, well, you're gonna be a starving artist, which I was like, I don't really want to sign up for that. So what's the next thing? And psychology has always fascinated me, the human mind, how it works, why we do the things that we do. And so that was my first major psychology. And I have always loved criminal minds, murder mysteries, that type of stuff too. So I was really gonna focus in the forensics side of things. And so started at UND, obviously doing the generals and whatnot, and you know, didn't really love the program once I got into it. And so I was like, you know, what's next? And luckily, I had a sorority sister that was like, Why are you not in communications or marketing or advertising or any of that? I go, Well, I don't know. So maybe I'm gonna check out some of those classes, and I did, and the rest is history. So I took the long way home from a collegiate perspective of changing my major, my second semester of my junior year, but I am so glad that I did. I when you talk about relationships and clients, I am a relationship person at the core, and so with that comes listening and then you know, responding and relatability, you know, and all of that. And so I think it's just been a natural space for me to be in. My mom was a great listener, yeah, you know, and I think that has helped a lot. But sure, you know, writing, conversation, all of that, it's just it's an easy space for me to play in. And so, you know, it's I love what I do. And so I think just like I said, my childhood brought me kind of to where I am today.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

And that's so cool. And and to have it be modeled for you at home, like you said, with your mother to be able to know what that looks like, right? What good listening looks like. I mean, what a luxury that is. I when you so you talk about uh when you're in college or excuse me, post-college, and then you know, being a relationship kind of focused individual leader, you know, marketer. Why is that important? And how is that different from other organizations that might do things that are similar that you do?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yeah, I think that it is important because that's where trust is built. I mean, truly, I know a lot about my clients that probably most whatever call it competitors or people that are in the same space don't. I worked in agency life for years before I went internal within organizations and then worked with agency partners.

Trust And The Full Customer Journey

SPEAKER_00 5:00

So I really have had the opportunity to sit in a wide variety of seats. So I come at it from a completely different angle too. It's never been just marketing or advertising or branding to me. It's been about helping, you know, whether it's a marketing manager reach the company, you know, that they're working for their goals or working directly with a business owner, CEO, making sure that we're having those deeper conversations so we can uncover, you know, how we're gonna market them. What do you stand for? What do you stand against? You know, who do you want to be to the world? Why is that important? Why should anyone care? And so I can't do that if the trust isn't built.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

And so, you know, I just had a branding kickoff call with a new client and we we go deep. And it was interesting because he's a mental health therapist that is looking at building out his practice.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

And healthcare and private practices are nice sweet spot for me. My last 24 years of my career have had healthcare marketing operations development in it. And so that's a natural just kind of fit for us at mint. But again, sitting in those seats, you know, from an operational standpoint, I'm like, okay, cool. You can give me a $250,000 marketing budget. But if the person answering the phone when a client or patient calls does not have it together, we are wasting our money. So that's where we're talking about customer patient, client experience. What does that look like? The customer journey, you know, what is the parking lot? I mean, I just had another, you know, kind of session with the client. I'm like, what is what is your dream journey for your patient? The second that they hit your parking lot, walking into the space, sitting in the lobby, checking in, what are the bathrooms like? You know, those types of things. I really look at, you know, branding is yes, it's your logo, and all those things, you know, that the visuals that are out there, but it's like the five senses, yeah, organizations, and you're like, oh my gosh, like this is their signature scent. I love scent marketing. It's like go to the West in Kieran and Arizona. Yeah. I am home, baby. It's like such a great place.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

It's funny you say that. You know, they say, what do they say that you know, scent is the number one sense that's tied to memory, and I'm and I'm sure it is. But you know, one thing that's top of mind for me is music. You know, if I if I hear a song from like 1998, I'm like immediately back in senior year high school. You know what I mean? Yes, yeah. It's like I can, it's like, oh yeah, yep, I know exactly where I was, what I was doing. And then there's some songs you hear, it's like, I don't really want to listen to that song.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

And facts How far can marketing go? Meaning, if you have a leader, a CEO that they believe to be true, maybe Well, let me uh let me ask it this way Can marketing fix a bad product, a bad team, or a or a bad experience?

SPEAKER_00 7:57

No, yeah, it cannot. And I believe that wholeheartedly. It's why we have very different conversations. It's how I lead my team.

SPEAKER_04 8:04

A little closer, maybe if you don't mind. Yep, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

No, marketing cannot fix bad product team members, all of that. It's how we coach and really guide, you know, our clients too. I remember, you know, back when I was at Catalyst Medical Center as the marketing and operations director there. We had conversations, you know, about apparel and what the team looked like and getting

When Marketing Cannot Save You

SPEAKER_00 8:27

all the nursing staff in black logoed scrubs and name tags and just, you know, a really put-together, well-oiled machine. Intentional. Yes, have the spa team wearing our brand colors. If they weren't wearing logoed apparel, you know, just I mean, those details that matter, you know, I mean, posture when you're sitting at the front desk, not eating, you know. Yeah. When you're at the front desk, it's like, okay, if you're having a shopping on guns, yeah, at the front desk. We gotta we gotta figure out something else where a team member can, you know, pop in, even if we're short staffed, whatever that looks like. And so, you know, you talk about, you know, before we got on here, it's like that but not limited to for your job description, you know, there were times that I was cleaning up the bathroom in the patient waiting area because, you know, a little kid was brought in and an explosion happened and life happens. And so we're like, okay, well, we need to take care of that for you. So the next patient that goes in there doesn't have to experience that. And so when we talk about leading, you know, too, I didn't put that on anyone else to do it because that patient experience is part of our brand reputation. And so you just do it and move on to the next thing.

SPEAKER_04 9:37

That has to be rare. As far as well, I I just maybe I'm just speaking from my personal experience, but I don't believe to be true, unfortunately, that that would be the rote response that a employee would have in that scenario would be more probably gonna complain about it, gonna talk to a leader about it, figure out whose job it is to do that. Oh, that's not my job, right? I'm not supposed to do that. And the reality is if you're on a team, as far as I can tell, at least if you're on a team that is has a well-established North Star, has a well-established, you know, one plus one equals three type environment or desire, you don't even really need to have that detailed of a conversation. If it needs to get done, you just do it.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Right. Yeah. It doesn't need to be an SOP to like the shutter. Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, exactly right. Even though I I believe to be true, some organizations, it's like just because it's happened one time, you're right. You don't need a standard operating procedure because of like what are the odds of it happening again? Well, we should probably dive in and fix it. It's like, yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Yeah, just I mean, show up. That's one of the you know, biggest things too that we talk about as a team member, you know, a team is how are we showing up for each other? How are we showing up for our clients? How are we showing up, you know, in the community? I mean, the last thing I want is team members at a happy hour talking shit about mint. So it's like, let's make sure that that's not happening. Right. Because, you know, like have the conversations. That's one of the biggest things. You know, I have learned so 14 years in business here this July, eight and a half of those are rolled solo. So you talk about trust.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Um, adding those, you know, first team members. I actually let go of my first hire 10 days after I hired her.

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Okay. I want to hear about that story if you don't mind sharing.

unknown 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:22

No NDAs involved or any sort of. No, no, it's no.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

We're we're good now. I see you're kind of out in the community. But you know, I I've learned a lot about even just interviewing, you know, true as a business owner and again refining and defining who I am, what I stand for, how I show up, yeah, set out in the community. I I vulnerability was never a space that I really like to play in. I I, you know, I wanted to be the badass and I can take care of this, and I'm hyper-independent,

Hiring Fit And Hard Calls

SPEAKER_00 11:51

and I blame and love my father for that side of things too. I mean, you know, he always had a full-time job where he always had side gigs. Like he, you know, was the one of the original owners of Prime Cut Meets on University here in town. And he, you know, owned the bar in Glendon for a while and we worked at it. Like we worked doing those things. I grew up flipping homes with him. And so I've always had that entrepreneurial spirit, but also kind of like that intrapreneurial spirit. So when I was working internally, I never approached things as they were just a job. I wanted to show up as my best self and you know, it's like show my value so there's some of that space of prove it, you know, to we're just sitting there one day and I'm like, are you enjoying what you're doing right now? And she's like, Well, what do you you know, what do you mean? Like, you just don't seem like you are. She goes, Well, I don't, you know, I don't really know. I'm like, I I do. I can feel it. So I'm like, it's it's not gonna work. I know that. So let's just rip off the band-aid now and figure it out and like I'll help you find a gig if that's what we need to do, you know, whatever that looks like. And so then open up interviews again. Yeah, okay, what what kind of questions do I need to ask that are different, you know, to get the next right fit for me, especially having it be my first hire. It's like uh it's yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

I mean, I would imagine there's a a a small fear-based mindset where it's like I have to get this right, and and then of course, you know, you you flex that muscle over and over and over over time. It's just like, okay, well, now we start establishing various tenants and and qualities and you know, ways in which we want to grow the team and you have a pretty good idea of who's gonna fit and who isn't. Absolutely, yeah. Was it a good experience for both of you? I mean, it I and I say that because in in my experience as a leader, almost every single time someone's either been managed out, coached out, or left on their own volition, both sides end up in a better spot.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Yes, a hundred percent. I mean, yes, I see her pretty frequently. Um she works at a business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I frequent and it's always, I mean, it's just met with respect. And I think that was the thing, even me seeing her. Yeah. Too. I don't I don't think that that happens a lot the time. You know, too. You know, I even I tell my team, I'm like, I I'm highly empathetic and I can be flexible like until you make me not be. Right. You know, so it's like then then that then I'm gonna show up differently, you know.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Not unlike being a mom.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Right.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

In some cases.

unknown 14:24

I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

And we'll certainly touch on that too. But I, you know, there's so many tangential things to leadership and parenting and all of that stuff that I wanna wanna dive into. But you you mentioned your mom early in the conversation. Tell me about your mom.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah, so she is an incredible human. She had me the summer before her senior year of high school. Oh, so teen mom. She graduated valedictorian.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Where from?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

From Candu, North.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

And then went off to, well, now it's Minnesota State Moorhead. It's, you know, they've rebranded in some fashion several times

Family Roots And Earned Resilience

SPEAKER_00 15:02

over the years.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

And went to college, had me with her. She was working, going to school. She just really never had any excuses. And so, like, there's that space too, where you know, my freshman year of college, I was on academic probation. I didn't party.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

You too, huh?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

I mean, I didn't party that much in high school. I'm not gonna say drink party.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

I thought classes were optional. Yeah, yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

I was like, okay, this is a whole different world. She's like, What are you what are you doing? Yeah, like, what do you mean? Yeah, you know, so like you don't actually have any excuses. She's like, So let's go. And then my dad's like, Mandy, no, for real, get your shit together. Yeah, yeah. Like, okay, yeah, I get it, guys.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Um, because I I mean I paid for all my own college too. My dad's like, what are we doing here? Yeah. Wasting money, yeah, you know, all of that. And so I did get my shit together. Dad, I said that to him. So I went from academic probation to by the time I graduated, I think I had like a 366 Q and GPA. So GPAs are really easy to get down, they're super hard to get down. If any of this knowing if there's any college students listening to this, heed my advice.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

That's uh really that's really well said. Yeah, that's a good point. That's good. Do you do you look at that as a hiring leader?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

No, because probably because of my own experience.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

Yeah, maybe that's why I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Um, you know, I I mean, yeah, it's great if you have a 4.0, you know, also did you live at all? Yeah, you know, so kind of that experiential things, you know, we're talking about those kinds of things right now with our senior in high school. Yeah, you know, he's like, oh, do I go to NDSU? Do I do this? You know, and we John and I loved the college experience, you know, and so there's a lot to love about it. Yeah, I mean, some of my best lifetime friendships came out of college. Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that. And we all come, I mean, we really come from all walks of life too, but just well, that's what makes them great. That common bond.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

Yeah. That's what makes them great. I mean, everyone's still learning about themselves, right? And try to figure out who you are, what they have to offer, what what we need from the world, right? And then you run into people that you can actually start having some deep conversations about some of that same stuff. And and and next thing you know, you know, you're forging some really, really healthy and strong relationships that you threw many different things that happen throughout your life, right? And that's and and if if if you guys are anything like me, of course, I know I know John real well, but and so happens to be the fact that I I mean, I think John and I went to preschool together. For sure, kindergarten. Yeah, yeah. All the way through high school, of course. But you know, the circle gets smaller every year, for me, at least it did, you know, and and they say that you are most like the five people that you spend your time with. And I think that is very relevant. I remember hearing that, you know, 10, 15 years ago and not necessarily poo-pooing it, but being somewhat skeptical of that. And now it's like, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I found that too, you know, with myself, maybe not so much from my college friends. I mean, they're they're not in the area. Yeah. Most of them are in the cities or in Grand Forks, but my, you know, friends right here in this community, it it's, you know, it kind of happened by chance, but then also I think didn't that intentionality of having people in your circle that are our business owners, our high achievers, our parents, you know, so it's like we all understand where we're coming from. If something needs to be canceled, it's not a big deal. Yeah. If a text goes unanswered for weeks on end, it's fine, not a big deal. You know, we we're all just like really trying to get through it on most given days. And so, but it's like being able to be like, holy crap, this team member thing came up or whatever it is. We're all able to talk about it and help each other through it because there's a good chance that in some fashion it has happened to one of us in some capacity. So, like, here's what I did take or leave what you wish, you know, or maybe just even a quick bitch session and like work through it a little mini therapy and and move on. But that's so healthy, and the trust piece again. So it's like the you know, what you're going through with with your family, whatever it is, like those, those are people that you need to be able to trust and know that I mean, yeah, it's just it's a lot that we're all kind of through on any given day. So it's super important.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

100%. And just I was having a coffee with a former colleague this morning, and and we had that very same conversation just around the idea that everyone's got their own stuff. And you know, you can either be open and honest about that to the level of depth that you feel comfortable, right? Of course, you know, I've always been more comfortable going perhaps a bit deeper than maybe some others, and not as deep as some, and certainly a lot deeper than many. But the reality is that that my perspective on it doesn't matter. It's the environment that I try to facilitate for others that you can tell me whatever you want, and I'm not gonna tell anyone else. Yes, right? You can trust me with that information.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Exactly. Yeah, it's like, okay, we're you know, we're the vault.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

So, with that though, that creates an environment where you are now sometimes wearing other people's stuff.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

How do you work through that?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Absolutely, you know, like you said, it's like we're all we're all going through our own stuff. You know, you do what you can to help. I have two really good friends going through cancer treatment, you know, both of them incurable. And I'm gonna air quote that because the one has gone years beyond what they ever had anticipated, and then the other is pretty new, you know, into her treatment, but young, you know, and so one of the things that was said to the one was said, Hey, be careful or don't expect too much of your friends because

Carrying Others’ Stuff And Recovery

SPEAKER_00 20:52

you know they'll probably all leave you. And that just was like a gut punch to me as her friend. Any reason behind that statement or like what the I think because it's you know, when the you know, when things get tough, like you do you do see people show their own colors, you know. And so that really hit me.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

And I was like, wow, that is just just crazy to me.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

But it's like worse than the cancer itself.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yes. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

I mean, I'm not speaking for these people, but I as I'm processing that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah, I was like, what the hell? Actually, I probably actually said a little bit more excellent than a paper because thanks for the bedside manager, right?

SPEAKER_04 21:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

But yeah, so it's I just really focus on showing up and filling in kind of the gaps. It's like, hey, I'm going through a rough week, and then, you know, I'm hopefully going through a great week. And so hopefully it's not happening simultaneously because that's when it can get tough. But from that perspective, it's like, you know, there is we talk about music. Music is one of my biggest like therapy cathartic things, whether it's like dancing with my daughter, you know, in the living room. Jamming out in my car, whatever that looks like. I do lean a lot on kind of music, arts, that type of thing to get me through those times too. And even when I'm, you know, kind of in a creative block, if I ever am, I will turn on music and it immediately just kind of recharges me. So there are certain playlists that I need to like make things happen. But I've got ready to rock. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

I love that. I've always found that I'm I'm best when I'm doing three things reading, listening to music, and then exercising, you know, in some way, shape, or form. It doesn't have to be a you know two-hour lift session, but at least getting outside, getting some, you know, walking, some fresh air, that type of stuff. And I I wish I would have had that nailed down earlier in my life, you know, those things that I could go back to and then reflect on and be like, okay, well, what was I doing in these periods of my life where I felt like I really had a pretty decent, and you never have it all figured out, right? But a pretty decent pulse on what's going on. And then, okay, what were my behaviors? What were my activities? What were the things I was focusing my time on when maybe I didn't realize that I was, you know, struggling or maybe not putting on that I was in a bit of a tough spot. And then you can start comparing and contrasting over time. If I could go back to, you know, being 21, 22, or inspire any wisdom on younger kids, it's just like, you know, journal. Yes. Write stuff down.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah, get it out.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

So you can look back. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

I remember there were a couple of times even in high school, I don't even know what I was going through, but I would just go out in my car and drive out in the country, blast my music, and just like scream. And I'm not loud, but like now I've read a lot of things about that, like the release. So I'm like, gosh, I don't I haven't done that in adulthood, but I'm like, I must have been on to something.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

No doubt.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

You know, at a younger age.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Have you ever done one of those smash rooms?

SPEAKER_00 23:49

No, but I feel like I would love it.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

We did a one a couple of years ago. It was right down on Broadway. I think it closed.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Oh, you're right. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

It was, I didn't realize how therapeutic it was going to be going into it. And then you smash that sounds weird to say, but you like smash that first TV and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. It's like you can feel the cortisol dripping off your body.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

Yeah. Which was also kind of scary at the same time. Yeah. You know, it's just like, man, I got this in me. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

We need to we got that moment. Yeah. We had it and you work through it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Yeah. Absolutely. So going back to mom.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

So what you're seeing as you're growing up is a strong woman who's, you know, supporting, caring for, providing for in many, many ways. And your dad sounds like doing doing the same for sure. Yeah. How did that play out as you got into kind of your more formative teenage years, you know, and into your college years? And like how when did it hit you? Is maybe the best question that I'm trying to think of right now. When did it hit you that this is going to be something that I'm going to be taking with me forever? This sort of way of being, as it were.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah. I would definitely say my first well, catalyst gig that, you know, when you have a title like that, I mean, I was started there when I was 27, you know, marketing and operations director. Now looking back, I'm like, did I have any business? But I did. I showed up, you know, I worked really, really hard, worked a lot of hours, cared a lot about the success of that business, still do. She's a client now, you know, coming into your world coming full circle from that perspective. But my dad, he was like, This is a big deal, Mandy. Like this is a big, a big job, you know, and not that like the other ones before that kind of an agency world weren't. But you know, I had a team of 30 at that time. Oh wow. I was also, you know, helping lead clinical admin staff. Um, obviously with Dr. Matheson being the owner and you know, her leading, you know, the team in her own right too. And so did I have my amateur moments? Absolutely. Did I screw up? Absolutely. Did I have my super successful like ultimate high moments? Yeah, for sure. You know, all of it kind of mixed into one. But when it comes to listening to, I mean, of the 30 people, 28 of them were women, you know, aged 18 to 55. So we had a big range. Um a lot of different personalities, you know, to work with too. So it's flexing that emotional intelligence muscle, yeah, what's really going on, you know, asking questions instead of assuming, you know, again, kind of having that pulse on your people, I think is super important. It's something that we practice at Mint all the time, especially, you know, it's like Kelsey, my director of operations, she's my wingwoman. I'll be like, hey, this happened, or I'm going through this. If I seem off today or whatever it is this week, this is why. I want you to know that. If the team members ask you about it for whatever reason, feel free to tell them. I, you know, I don't need to go basically like kind of air my dirty laundry, you know, kind of one by one through everybody. Here's what I have going on today. You know, if it's uh hey, what's up? And I've had team members come and do that to me. It's like this happened this weekend, or you know, they have a sick parent or whatever it is. That way we can all just like level set and be there, you know, for that person too, whether it's health problems or what I mean, whatever. Absolutely. Yeah, again, it's that building that trust, you know, that help, I mean, at the business level, it helps with retention, you know, so we're not in a constant state of turnover, kindness and consideration, you know, too. That I think we all deeply crave, you know, as humans, to be seen and heard. And when we're spending more time at the office than we are with most people in our life. And so if we are showing up when we're not feeling our best and really then not performing at our best, like that's a conversation that we need to have too. And I might say, Hey, like I can tell enough where you need to go home and whether it's work from home or whatever that is, and we're good. Like, I don't want you to go home and ruminate on it and be like, oh my God, I'm gonna get fired. Like, no, no, that's not not the culture that we have, not how I want to lead in any fashion. I mean, throughout my career, I there's jobs where I was working 50, 60, 70 hours a week, kind of depending on what was going on at any given time. I also don't want that for my team. I'm not a big believer in that everybody needs to do their time in like the shitty time of our careers. Why? Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, it it tends to make a lot of people bitter. It's true. Actually, and so if I can have people on my team and we're not doing that, why wouldn't we?

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Well, exactly. And and if if that's the environment that you're creating or have created, then you're just not gonna be able to number one retain people, right? Uh, but but certainly you're not gonna have anybody that's lining up at the door to to want to work with you.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

People are people everybody wants to be part of something bigger than themselves. Right. And when people can identify a strong leader or a strong person that that is available, i.e. hiring, right? The the advice that I've always given to people is, you know, chase strong leaders, chase people you respect and and chase people that you trust as you're learning and you're growing in whatever field that you you know want to be want to be working in. It's not always easy to know who those people are, but I mean that's where your network comes in, right? Right. And figuring out how to best navigate some of those what can be very scary waters as a as a young person.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Well, and I, you know, was luck and hard work. It's kind of you know, I quit my first job, went to the next one, and then ended up getting recruited, you know, over to Catalyst from that one. And then I was looking at getting my master's in healthcare administration. I left Catalyst to go experience a larger system, learned real quick that I was not wired for corporate America. Yeah, yeah. Um, kind of as we had talked about, lasted seven months in that arena.

Leaving Corporate And Starting Mint

SPEAKER_04 30:06

But you know, seven months isn't too bad.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

I I don't think so. I mean over half a year. Like, and it's so funny because two, uh, my parents both were people that stayed at their jobs for late life. That's how it was. Just, you know, so my mom's like, oh my gosh, you're gonna be a job hopper on your resumes. Okay, three years here, one year here, you know, then four years here, and then you know, and so I'm like, mom, I'm good. Yeah, fine. Yeah, I'm not I'm not good for that organization. If I do not enjoy working there, I work at a much faster pace than corporate America allowed me. And so I remember when I went to go put in my resignation, I sat down with my, you know, one of my 17 bosses, basically is kind of what I always say. And I'm like, okay, it's not you, it's me. Yeah actually. I'm like, I just this is not my jam.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Good for you, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

So, and it was just a great conversation. It's like I get it, but you know, I could kind of tell that about you. So that was all well and good. And then I went over to Dale Carnegie and did so, like, which that's interesting because you know, they're a worldwide organization. So when you talk about corporate America, but it was the local franchise, so that feels you know a lot different. So at that point, I was doing leadership training and business development, did a lot of cold calling, which I loathed and respect so much, the people that grind it out that way. But I don't do well being scripted.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

And so there was a very definitive script for follow-up calls and things like that. And I got to a point when I was leaving my seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth message that I would be like, hey, could you just call me back so I can like take you off my list or not? Like, that'd be great. You know, dude. Super helpful. Yeah, you know, and then I'd get calls back because they thought it was funny. I was like, okay, you know, there's something to this, but at that point I wasn't actually doing a ton of the like marketing or branding work that I really love. And so then went to talk to my boss at that point, and she's like, hey, it's time. Yeah, like do your own thing. And so I put my resignation in that conversation, and that's when I started my business. So I had no name, I'd know nothing. I mean, it just was where there's a will, there's a way. And again, my mom, you know, she's very logical, and she's the oldest of seven, I'm the oldest of four. And so that caretaker, yeah, nurturer, you know, you don't have health insurance now. How are you gonna pay your bills? My dad's like, whatever, you can go get another shitty job if this doesn't work out, you know, like just those two different perspectives, you know, kind of playing in my head. And I had done a great job of being involved in the community, serving on boards, networking in that way. And so when I did it, I just reached out to every single human I could think of and said, I'm starting this thing. If you have an opportunity for me to work on a project, give me a shot, whatever that looks like. And that's ultimately how I started building my business.

SPEAKER_04 33:12

Wow. And that was what'd you say, eight and a half years ago, nine years ago?

SPEAKER_00 33:16

No, so that's 14.

SPEAKER_04 33:17

14 years ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

So I rolled solo for eight and a half.

SPEAKER_04 33:20

Oh, gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

So I was alone, basically a solopreneur. I was doing everything from clients. So graphic design, writing, event planning, PR, media buying, you name it. I had my hands in it. So working a ton, you know, of hours then, uh, which served me well. Yeah, for sure. Now, but then I had Evelyn at year seven.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Which totally changed the game for me. I had her four days shy of my 39th birthday. So, you know, kind of an older than average parent waited a really long time to have her. You know, I had a 3% chance of getting pregnant without I IUI and IVF. Oh, really? I had no interest in doing any of that. Um, because I just been through a lot of kind of health issues as far as fertility. And I'm like, I don't want another freaking medication put in my body. I don't want any of that. And

Motherhood Boundaries And Team Growth

SPEAKER_00 34:13

so I just they say let go and let God. And, you know, after a year of trying, then here we are. There she was. So it's so awesome. I'm like, okay, so uh, you know, she came a month early. So as kids do, throw wrenches in your plant. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't have like the people off board it or, you know, kind of taken care of. And so I literally just strapped her on and I brought her to meetings and just did the thing. And so she's basically been an entrepreneur since utero.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Um, you know, and and I did dial back a lot, you know, had the conversations with my clients where I'm like, I'm not gonna be grinding it out at the level, you know, that I was before. And, you know, many of them stayed with me. And then if it wasn't gonna work, then you know, referring them off to other people. But then, you know, really after a year after having her, I'm like, all right, I can't, I can't do this alone. I don't want to do this alone. And John was really like, okay, you know, he's he's he's in numbers and spreadsheets and like the logic, yeah, logical, you know, all of that. And I'm you know, I'm a deep, deep feeler and like I'm a I'm a gut girl and we're gonna go with the vibe and you know, kind of all of that.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

I like that gut girl.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yeah, it's just you know, so he's he's like, I just think there's a lot of opportunity, you know, for you absolutely to do this your own way, you know. That was the other thing. I was like, oh my god, I don't want to manage people anymore, you know, and so but when you're doing it as your own company, like that looks different too. Yeah, and so that's where then the whole hiring a team came about. And so, you know, obviously let some people go, some people have left, just as you know, business does. We're working on hiring team member number 10 right now, and so you know, we've grown a lot over the last couple of years, especially, you know, even nationally, you know, getting clients outside of the area, which I'm you know super proud of. And that's been intentional too. And you know, just showing up very I'm very active on LinkedIn, which you know, yeah, yeah. Those conversations, but and then you talk about journaling and writing, that's so cathartic for me. I don't have any content strategy. You know, you practice what you preach. I do not have a content strategy for LinkedIn for myself. My company does. Yeah, yeah. But for me, I'm a very organic, free-flowing any situation that happens in my life, I can somehow tie it to business. It's just like ingrained in me. And so that's where like the storytelling piece comes from it and where people learn about me, you know, as the leader of Mint, start trusting me, and then it's a hell of a lot easier to move them over as a client for our whole team. Yeah. And so, even with that, when we talk about team members, we we had an interview with someone today, and one of the things that Kelsey said is, you know, we are all about having our clients trust every team member that we have, not just one person. Because when it was me for so long, rolling solo, it was really hard to have the pass off for me because it was my baby before I had a baby. Absolutely, yeah. I built it up, you know, for eight and a half years. But if it's all stuck with one person, then we're gonna constantly have bottlenecks and we're not gonna be efficient. And I would say, like, I want to set boundaries with clients on expectations for timelines, but we continue to hear over and over again about how fast we move on things and how good we do it. And we have a 97% retention rate, and I'm super proud of that because that is not Congratulations. Thank you. Not common in our industry at all.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

Well, uh, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would imagine by the time organizations are in the market for branding support, it's probably six to twelve months after they should have been in the market for branding support, right? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

And then it becomes ASAP. How quickly can you get this done again? Like, oh my gosh, now if I every whatever, a dime every time I heard that, I would be a millionaire by now.

SPEAKER_04 38:14

But it would be so easy for you as the solopreneur to just say, Oh, I'll I'll just run on this because I've done this before, I know what to do, and it's you know, it's the teach Amanda Fish concept, right? It's like it's gonna take you an extra hour to explain it to somebody and coach them through it and support them through it. But a few weeks, a few months down the road, now all of a sudden everyone's clicking. Right. And you've got more time back in your day that you can spend with your family. You've got more, and you know, obviously we could you could go on and on about the the value of that, but that that is rare also. I think there's just number one, it's either an imposter syndrome where people feel like uh, you know, maybe I don't belong here, I shouldn't be doing this, so I need to prove my worth every day. Right, even to myself.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

Did you ever have any any of those moments, maybe not to that level of depth, where you kind of that imposter syndrome sort of you know snuck in a little bit? And if so, how did you how'd you work through that?

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah, a little bit. I don't know, you know, I I'm a pretty gritty person. Again, it's like I thank my dad for that, like the personality piece of that, kind of no matter what, we'll figure it out. So growing up flipping homes with him, you're always trying to figure out solutions. Um, and he would always say, if you don't do it right the first time, you're gonna do it again and again and again and again. So it's like from that perspective, you know, too.

SPEAKER_04 39:30

It's like in literally every part of life, actually. That's very yeah, I want to make second year.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

It's it's exactly the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So so yeah, they're you know, it's like, oh my gosh, you know, I remember kind of getting that first like really big client, and it's like, okay, guys. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

Everyone button up.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Yes, let's do this thing and kick ass. And but they have like they've continued to show up, and I'm super proud, you know, of the team that we have now. I'm a different leader now than I was two years ago, you know, too. Definitely transparency. Okay. So, like transparency in our numbers too, like where we're sitting as a company. We have our quarterly retreats where we dive into that. So it's like, you know, them having an understanding what role, you know, that they play in it too. You know, kind of the monetization piece. So if you're not directly a billable person, what does that look like? Like, how can you bring monetization to the company? Because ultimately, I've had many people ask me, like, what's your mission? What's your vision? And although I do that for a lot of companies and people and figure out their core values, I really want us to do phenomenal work, have a fun time while we're doing it, making a shit ton of money. Because if we are, our clients are, like everybody's happy, we're golden. Like, I don't know if I can put that on a wall or something.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

I think you should. Or on our website, I think you should.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Um, that that's what I want, you know. And the the guy that we interviewed today, he said that. He's like, I, you know, if I'm hopping on a client call, if they don't look like they're excited or we're we might have a little bit of fun, he goes, I need to ask some different questions and redirect the conversation, levels, do a gut check, whatever that looks like. Yeah. And so I'm like, okay, that's emotional intelligence right there. Yeah. And you can't train that. I've learned that a lot in business, too. It's like, you know, again, that consideration for the other human or people. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

You know, empathy empathy in general, right? The idea that it's not about us more often than not, even though, you know, our brains would suggest that it's always about us all the time. Absolutely. Right. Yeah.

unknown 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:45

That's I I love, can you put that on a wall? I would love to see the wall that you put that on because that would be fantastic. It's eloquent in its brevity, right? It's just almost sounds so simple that you're right. You get into a a spot where you almost feel like you have to over engineer something to make it worthwhile. And it's just like, nah, dude.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Especially with the work that we do. I mean, we are in the space of words and you know, telling your story in the most succinct fashion, and then also having it long form and everything, you know, in the middle. And so that's also the space for me, you know, and like talking about AI and all of that, where how I write is how I talk, you know, too. And so that doesn't always translate to business, necessarily, depending on what the industry is, you know, what the business is, uh, you know, from that perspective. But I mean, people people want to read as if they were having a conversation with someone. I do believe that, unless you're trying to, you know, read some technical instructions or whatever that looks like. If you're an engineering company, that looks different. That's probably not the mission that they want on their wall because they're working with a different kind of clientele from that perspective.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

So and what you've just described is is so near and dear to my heart when I think about the time and energy philosophy and the ability to be able to first and foremost have awareness into the areas that fill our bucket and awareness into the areas that deplete our bucket, right? Absolutely where there's friction between our core values and there's friction between what we're actually doing, either choosing to do or being asked to do. And you know, the departure between those two things can create a very poor atmosphere, right? For not just ourselves, but those around us that are most important to us. And so being able to describe it the way you did is so beautiful because it's it's like, well, this is just kind of who I am, this is how we do business, and it might not be for everybody, whether it's employees, whether it's clients, right? Correct. But those that it does mesh with, ninety seven percent of the time they're sticking around, and that's generally part part well, almost entirely why. Yes, yeah, as far as I can tell.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

I've really loved it recently. We've had some clients that have wanted to come work for us, yeah, too. And we haven't, you know, had the right fit. And then I'm also that space of, okay, so if you're coming over here, what's gonna happen over there?

SPEAKER_04 44:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's gonna write me checks? I'm just gonna just kick it. But also kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

You know, but that makes me proud, you know, too, is that it's like you have a client who wants to come work with our team that says a lot. And we had a previous client that had a year-long contract at a casino. And after he got done with that, he's like, hey, I'm not ready to retire yet. He had run his agency for 25 years, sold it off two and a half years ago. He's like, What do you think about like hanging out together and I can attend 99 this for a while until I, you know, figure out I'm done. I'm like, let's do it. So just even that, you know, worked in agency life before. So had his whole take on it, you know, running it, running a whole team, and then, you know, being the GM, you know, large casino that we were supporting, that said a lot to me too. Absolutely. You know, okay, no, well now you want to actually work with us.

SPEAKER_04 45:09

Yeah, well, just we'll just want to be in that environment. I just want to be around you people, right? Feel that energy. I mean, that's that says a lot. Yeah. Well, it says everything, really, as far as I can tell. So when people think about branding, what do they get wrong most often?

SPEAKER_00 45:28

They get wrong, but it's very surface level. They don't go deep. They do just look at the logo, the colors, what are my fonts, you know, all of that. And so that's where every conversation that we have really is about depth. Like I said, what who are who are you? What do you stand for? What do you stand against? Because I think that's as equally as important. Um, you know, it helps like vetting happen without having to waste,

What Most Branding Gets Wrong

SPEAKER_00 45:57

you know, people's time. So we work with a lot of like service industry, you know, kinds of clients too. And so, you know, having that brand infused into their team and them having an understanding, like, yes, mission, vision, and core values, but what does that actually look like from an experiential standpoint? You know, branding is everything. I spoke at Disrupt HR a few years ago. You know, you think like, well, branding and marketing, what does that have to do with HR? Everything because branding touches every single thing in your business and it's tied to your reputation. And so that's where I think they get it wrong. It's it's the surface level conversations that are happening, what what looks good. And then even with clients, you know, I'm like, you might prefer that because so much of the work that we do is subjective and it's art. So if you put that on the wall, you have 10 people looking at it, you're gonna have 10 different opinions. So it's like we need to look at it as objectively as we can and communicate and educate why we do what we do from a branding perspective. Because you know, you have a client that wants this just crazy logo, and it's got all these different layers to it and these fine lines, and just the the readability when you look at all the applications that a brand can live, they're not thinking about that. They're like, I like this here on this sheet of paper. Yeah, yeah. Well, cool. It's not only ever going to be on this sheet of paper, nor is it going to be these 12 colors. Like, thank you, AI. Amazing. We can work from that, but that can't be reality because of where your brand lives.

SPEAKER_04 47:39

That's that's really, really interesting when you when you talk about how the layer of depth is so important. And I I think about let's just say 15, 20 years ago, right? I feel like branding was was certainly something that happened, but it was mostly, and and again, I'm I'm coming from a very minimal level of experience in this specifically. My perspective of it was you think of a marketing team or an ad agency or whatever it might be, those are for big clients, those are for big organizations. And now, seems like with the advent of certainly social media, you hear a lot about people's personal brand. Yes. Their individual brand. And that, well, there's so many examples now of individuals who are just them, right? And whatever they're putting out to Instagram or that individual branding is something that I'd never really considered until you know, probably the last five plus years, where it's like, oh yeah. And you sort of touched on it. I mean, when you walk out of the front door every day as not only just the leader of, you know, of mint, but you know, the the model mother of your daughter, and just I mean, all of that, right? Yes. Tell me, so a two-part question, I guess. Tell me a little bit about how that sort of injected itself, the personal branding aspect of it. When did that become really front-facing to just the world in general?

SPEAKER_00 48:59

I feel like it's probably been the last, you know, 10-ish years, but really in the last five. You know, you I mean, I even did it when I was, you know, kind of rolling solo. My brand before was MSpire. So I did a complete rebrand about four and a half years ago. So changed the company name, like flipped everything on its head, you know, when I was like looking at starting a team. I'm like, this was all Amanda as a solo person. But I even had MSpire by Amanda Schilling. Like it was like, woo, yeah, like this sign on a wall. Like you didn't even give a shit at that moment. You know, whatever. But yeah, you definitely see it. And one of the things that I've done too with my team is what we do for clients. So I've done brand voice sessions with them to help them kind of flesh out their content pillars because I do want to practice what we preach. I do want my team, you know, to be active on social media and then some of their roles make more sense. You know, obviously, like our social media manager. If you're not on social media, that that's gonna look weird to our clients and you know the masses that are out there. And so, but again, like you talk about kind of imposter syndrome. So, I don't know, you know, I don't know where to start for me. That's different. And it totally is. I that's how I was too. I'm like, oh my gosh, now this is my own thing. Then you overthink it and you overthink it. I'm like, nope, we're not gonna play in that space. So that's where I'm like, we need to do this for the entire team. So it helps them even define kind of their content pillars. And again, who are you? What do you stand for? What do you stand against? How much are you willing to talk about what you stand for and what you stand against? Like, I'm gonna support you, you know, in that while also being mindful of my brand. Yeah, because on LinkedIn, my brand's literally attached to you. Yeah, you know, so it's like just being mindful of those things too. And what I found is that the team members like learned a lot about themselves that they didn't even know throughout that process. I would imagine so, yeah. You know, so it's like just taking the time to do that for them. And I loved getting to know more about them too, you know, in that way. That wasn't a one-on-one, you know, where you're kind of going through those types of things, but again, the deeper space of it.

SPEAKER_04 51:18

Well, and and that provides an opportunity, at least from my perspective, because I've always looked at it like a Venn diagram, you get your personal professional, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:26

I've always had more comfort with that the circles of that Venn diagram overlapping because it gave me an opportunity when you needed to have the more crucial conversations, it's built on love and trust and support. And so if if you know, in fact, I I've been known to say a few different times, it's like, do you believe that I have your best interest at heart? Because if you're not answering yes to that, the the rest of this conversation becomes irrelevant.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

It's a whole different conversation.

SPEAKER_04 51:51

Yeah, exactly. In fact, it's a completely different conversation that we have to have our partnership working together, right? But okay, yes, I believe that that you that you have my best interest at heart. Okay, great. Now you can actually get into the meat of that conversation, all the while they're understanding, okay, this is coming from a place of love, not unlike what you try to do as a parent or what you try to do as a sibling or a friend. Yes. You know, the friends the friends that tell and you tell you you're being an idiot, those are your good friends.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Right?

SPEAKER_04 52:20

The ones that that don't call when they don't hear from you, the ones that don't tell you you're being an idiot, you know, that's more surface level, in my opinion. Certainly my experience, you know. So anyway, what so personal branding is it is it similar in the sense because it is just one individual versus an entire organization where you know it can take years or decades to build it, it can take seconds to ruin it. I mean, most recently, I mean I'm a huge Tiger Woods fan. Right?

SPEAKER_00 52:49

But like, you know, he you know, maybe he's a bad example because he's just I'm not saying he's bigger than well, I mean, he's he it's a personal brand, but it's become a mega brand. I mean, you know, it's apparel lines, golf clubs, I mean all of that. I mean, it's a complete monetization machine, yeah, you know, and so but you know, from a personal perspective that also is like attaching to my family, like who I show up as, but then also, you know, my business. And so I've always thought business is personal. It's just again, the maybe the relationship, you know, side of me, am I sharing everything, you know, with clients? No, no, that's not what I'm talking about. Like where you're like, okay, well, that shit got off here a little quicker. Um, you know, from that perspective.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

I know. What's going on from there?

SPEAKER_00 53:44

But I think, you know, too, when I look at my team members, I'm like, you know, the reality of all of you being here at the end of the day, whenever I decide to retire or whatever that looks like, I mean, it is potentially pretty small.

SPEAKER_03 54:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

And I don't ever want to be in that space where I feel like I'm holding my employees hostage or I'm not putting them out there because I'm afraid that someone is gonna poach them. Like that's not good for anybody. That's definitely a scarcity mindset. And so that's one thing where I'm really been intentional because I do want to shine a light on them. I do want to feel confident in what they are doing and knowing that there could be a better opportunity than we can offer them. There you are, like you're building your personal brand. So it's it's good for you in us while you're at Mint, but then it's also good for you as you go on. It also shows them the process that I go through with clients too, from that brand voice perspective. Okay. And building it out and the kind of questions that I ask too, because a lot of times I am one-on-one with a CEO, a COO, a marketing director, whatever. Sometimes I'm with, you know, an entire leadership team. Yeah, but typically it's you know only me in the room. That makes sense. Um, doing that. So because the team members are working on, you know, kind of their zones of genius, and that's mine.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

Zones of genius? Yes. Okay. Is that personal? Did you come up with that?

SPEAKER_00 55:19

No, hell no. No, I'm sure you heard it somewhere. I love that what's like when you're in the zone. It's like, okay, like this is what I am really, really good at, what I enjoy. And that's the space that I want to be playing in 80% of the time, if I can. And so that's when I look at building out our team, you know, right people, right seats. Um, so we do work off of traction. Um, you know, and it's it's worked really well for us. Our our meetings are a lot more efficient, you know, probably than they were back in the day. Um, I definitely am the visionary. So I can be like squirrel, squirrel, you know, all this. And I'll be like, Kelsey, here's my idea. Okay, good. Can you take it and run with it? Can you implement it? You know, she's my integrator, you know, from that perspective. And so, you know, yeah, I just think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_04 56:04

Yeah. Well, it just it made me, it reminded me of the six types of working genius by and I just I just finished that book. And I was like, Oh, yeah, that's that's cool. So you mentioned zones of genius, and I'm like, that's I like that. Yeah, yeah, that's really good. So your daughter's how old?

SPEAKER_00 56:18

She is six, she'll be seven in July.

SPEAKER_04 56:21

Seven going on, sixteen.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Seventeen, only moly, actually, probably 37 now. With the types of conversations and questions that she asks. It's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_04 56:31

Well, I've only had the luxury of meeting her a couple times, but I I remember when she was over, was it New Year's Eve when you guys stopped by? Okay. And and she played so nicely with Will, our four-year-old son, and and of course, our our daughter, although I think she probably hit the sack a little bit earlier than most. But what a wonderful young lady. And

Building Roles Around Strengths

SPEAKER_04 56:48

thank you. And so talk to me a little bit about her, talk to us a little bit about how, because you mentioned it previously, you know, things sort of change obviously when you become a mom and priorities. Well, I don't know how they don't change a little bit, right? Values a little bit. So talk about how you were able to do it all and kind of squeeze all that together, maybe reprioritize that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I talked a little bit about my mom, obviously, before, and she didn't have the option of flexibility. I mean, you know, it's like she was going to college, working a full-time job, and so, you know, we would, you know, would stay at daycare later, you know. It's like I think our daycare lady could be picked up by six. Okay. And that was all well and good. Like it was all I knew. And I think with having, you know, Evelyn so much later in life, I knew that that was not what I wanted. I wanted to be bringing her to school. And, you know, if I wasn't picking her up right away, because we do have an after school gal that picks her up, it's 245. I'm like, I feel like I was in school till four. I don't know like what this 245 business is, but you know, my office is all the way across town. So then I'm like, I need to leave by two to really like make the hunger games of the school pick up and drop off, like things from that perspective.

SPEAKER_04 58:00

May the odds be ever degree. Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:02

And so I just like I knew that I wanted to be there, you know, for those moments and I cherish that time. And so that's where it was, you know, even when she was a baby, I I did, you know, dial it back, you know, from client load perspective, all of that for probably a good year or so. Um, but I know also knew I wasn't wired to be like a stay-at-home mom. That was one of the things where I'm like, oh my gosh, I miss, you know, using my brain and all the ways that I do and being a part of, you know, conversations and all of that. And so, you know, even when so COVID obviously happened, and then I was working in my home office then. And so then I completely went the opposite direction of pretty much the entire world. That is when I leased an office space and started hiring people in office.

SPEAKER_04 58:54

So you're the one that did that. I know I know.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

I would like my soul. So people are like, geez, you're crazy.

SPEAKER_04 59:01

Everyone's zigging and you're zagging.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Yes, 100%. So yeah, so I just, you know, I knew I needed that space outside of the home, you know, to really do what I wanted to do. And I had a couple of college gals that would help me out for a couple hours, you know, kind of here and there. So I could go into the office. And then, you know, eventually she'd go into like preschool and so, you know, full day stuff, but still, you know, doing the the drop-off and the picking up for sure when she was in preschool. But I just don't, you know, I don't want to miss those moments. And, you know, next Friday she's got the her VIP morning. So both John and I are gonna go have you know muffins with her before school starts. And those are just moments I know she cherish cherishes because she asks about them. Yeah. And then even in previous years, it was like you could only have one parent, and then she's like, Well, what do we do? Like, we have to do a pattern. Why can't you both be there? You know, those types of things. And then there's been situations where it's like John might be out of town, you know, for work, and so then he can't be there. But it's like one of us is typically always there. Um, we did we were at Con Expo and neither of us were there for her music program. And let me tell you, we did hear about it. But grandma and her at the school, Danny, or yeah, they were there sending videos, taking pictures, you know, all of that. But I have never like been the person to hide that I have a kid, or if she's homesick, I've been like, hey, are you cool? Like, I'll message a client, whatever. She's homesick with me. Are you good? Like, I might need to, you know, hop off, whatever. I'm not, I'm not gonna like play hooky on my end, right? Right, you know, or make an excuse.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:41

I'll show up if you're cool with that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

I have a parent or I'm a parent. This is what my kid needs, you know, from me. And so again, I think it's just what do you stand for? What do you stand against? So, same thing with my team. Like, I want to have that flexibility. Daycare will randomly get closed, you know, those types of things. So it's like people are, you know, working from home, then whatever that looks like, it's super important to me. And as much as, you know, we talked a little bit earlier too about like when team members are gone for a long period of time, I feel it in my bones. Yeah, feeling it this week with Aaron being gone. But like Alexa is on maternity leave right now, and she's been like main client point of contact for you know two and a half years, but she's taking a three-month maternity leave. One of our rules is the computer then stays at the office. So you are not checking it, you know, any of that. So we've set up the team to like take care of the things, and I really miss her. Like, you know, from that standpoint, because it's like, okay, like the goals aren't changing, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:46

Let me bring you my computer.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Even if the people, you know, are oh the goals aren't changing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

Um that works, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

Yeah, it's like, what the heck? But you know, it's like her clients don't ask less of you. No, yeah. Um, you know, her second kiddo, and you know, it's like just even that space of a lot of times people are like, How's the baby? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Yes, how's the baby? But how are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Because, you know, after I had Evie, my health just completely flipped. You know, I had a phenomenal pregnancy, no issues whatsoever outside of her coming a month early, but and she was only in the NICU for four days. But so that too, it was like dealing with that and understanding that, you know, our bodies really as women take at least two years to get back to maybe somewhat normal. And so me understanding that as a business owner with a mainly female team, we only have one token male right now. Good for you, you know. Good for you. I don't know what's up with that. I don't know if I've like seen like a ball buster or what, but it's only been a few. And then it's, you know, whatever. But it's just kind of how it shook out and the one that we have. He's great. You know, he's like a dad. Yeah, you know, he's got a daughter and it's him and his wife. So he's like, I've always been outnumbered. We're good. Yep. So it's again too, like finding to that the people like that where I'm family first. I want my team members to feel like they can be too and not have that be a like a culture thing that we're saying outwardly and not having that happen internally. It's happening. I mean, kids have been in the office, you know, playing whatever it is, like in-between eye appointments, all of that's happening. And I welcome it because I also want to get to know their kiddos and like, you know, what we're all doing together. And we've, I mean, we've had people over at our house before.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:40

I mean, it's just part of the team, part of the family.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Yes, you know, free flowing.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:43

So and it's not lip service. I mean, if you're if you're modeling it yourself as the leader, right, then then you are consciously and subconsciously giving permission to others to do that. Yes. Right. And and so it's if if you were to say that, because every I feel like most organizations and leaders would say, oh, you know, family first or this or that. And then they don't either model it themselves or they don't actually lead that way, right? They say it because they think it sounds good and that's what they're supposed to say. But then when I'm successful. And that that to me is just a huge difference for obvious reasons. That when you find yourself in a in a situation as a leader where it's like, you know, what what are we missing here? Right. It's like, are we modeling the behavior? And and if we're not modeling the behavior that we're talking about, we need to do a complete revamp of what we're talking about. Yes, yes, can we even you know actually be who we are? Exactly. Yeah. And if and if we can't, and if and if we can't deliver on that because X, Y, Z has changed for whatever reason, that's okay. Right. Right? It but the awareness of that is is primary because you don't want to find yourself in a situation. It's like a marriage, it's like a relationship, it's like anything else. I mean, if you can't deliver on what you've said that you can previously deliver on, go back to the right, go back to the drawing board and start and start working. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, can't deliver on this. Well, what can you deliver on? Yeah. Super fair. Yeah. Super fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

Yeah. Well, yeah, and I think one of the cool things too, just you know, uh she does seem like an adult a lot of days with the conversations that we've been having, but we never talk to her like she was a baby, yeah, either. You know, and I'm a big like question asker. Don't get me wrong, there's those moments where I'm like, what are you doing? Like, you know, you like lack patience, but I typically am like, what's up? What's going on? Why are we talking like that? Why are we doing this? You know, to like get that intel so then I can figure her out, you know, better. And one of the things when we talk about like the school drop off, that one we jam to music a lot of the times, but I came across this tails.com like card deck thing where it's do you have it?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

It's the best thing. I do not she's like, Mom, yeah, you want to learn more about me? I'm like, every day, let's do this. There's nothing

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

I'd rather do, in fact, to learn more about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

So, you know, like three to five questions kind of on the way to school to learn more about each other and uh just some of those answers. I'm like, okay, we're doing some things right here, you know, from like the family perspective and showing up, you know, to for her in that way. And then obviously the boys too, with having two stepsons.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:23

How's that dynamic been for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

It's been great. I mean, I like I said, my mom being the oldest of seven, me being the oldest of four. I have always had kids in my life. I mean, you know, it's like I think most girls probably my age can say, oh, I started babysitting when I was 10 or 11, and I was dealing with infants, which I'm like, that's wild. I would never have probably a 10 or 11-year-old girl handling my infant and watching her. But it's been amazing. And I think again, we talk a lot about trusts and relationships

Parenting Co-Parenting And Connection

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

and fostering those, you know, intentionally. And it's the same thing in that space. Like I have great relationships with both of the boys because of the kinds of conversations that we have, the questions, you know, that I ask of them, being genuinely interested, you know, in them and loving them at every phase, you know, kind of that I've been in their life because it's been just a little around 10 years, you know, now at this point. Um has it really been that long? Yeah, I know. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:20

Anyway, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

Um, and then two, you know, I was talking to Gal the other day, you know, a lot of times, like, oh, it takes a village, it takes a village. Well, it really does. So we talk about school pickup, drop off. I mean, there are times where, you know, our after school gal is sick. John and I both meetings because we're running our own businesses, whatever we have going on at any given time. And so John's ex-wife's mom will often pick up our daughter and take them over to Tara's house, which is John's ex-wife. And so, you know, the kids, the little ones, because she has two kiddos from her current marriage, too, they like pretty much think they're brothers and sisters, and like they aren't, but are, you know, so it's what a wonderful big happy family kind of but to be able to, you know, do that and have that. And you know, there's been times where she's needed us and and we're in on it, you know, and her and I are having our own conversations and you know, kind of taking care of the boys as mothers do, and then, you know, it's like the dad figures have their role in it, and so you know, her and I are on the same page 99.9% of the time, and so the boys can't get away with shit, really, with us, because we are all like we are in a group text, it's just that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:10

That's such an example of what is possible in that type of environment, and you just never hear about it, do you? I mean, you just never hear is usually somebody's well, you can actually put the kids at the center of the universe and and say, okay, we are committed to facilitating again an environment where their growth is is primary, our feelings are somewhat secondary, and we're gonna figure it out. Man, scream that to the mountaintops because that is just fantastic. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Yeah, we have people that are just like, you guys are so weird. And I'm like, I'll take our weir any day of the week because I also you know have friends that have experienced you know divorce and co-parenting, and it looks very different and it's very unfortunate. It is, you know, really from that perspective. And, you know, we really want the kids to know. I mean, they just have more people to love them, more family members, you know. I mean, our holidays are crazy. John is, as you know, an only child. So him coming into to my world was a shock to the nervous system, no doubt, because he's also, you know, more of like an introvert. Yeah, and my family is a bunch of not introverts. Um so he's done great though. It's like he's he's come around. Um, and they and they know him obviously better too. And it's like they're the it's like, oh, how how far can we push his buttons to make him love me? It's like my aunt's like, you are gonna dance with me. We are gonna do this other way. He's like, No, I'm not. No, I'm not. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:37

Well, and you referenced it too, you know, you having your own business and then John now running general equipment and supplies, you know, any unique dinner conversation that you guys and and you you actually work with them, right? From a marketing perspective too. So that's a so you're uh you guys are partners, and then you're yeah, talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

Yeah. So we talk a lot about business at home. I mean, it's just kind of the reality of it with us both being immersed in it every single day, helping each other, you know, through problems. Like I said, he's a total numbers guy and so knows profit and loss, like the back of his hand, you know, all of that. And so me like leaning on him to teach me, you know, that's I'm like, I know the you know the basics, but it's like, and yes, you know, I have a CPA and like a tax person and all of that. But you know, when when you're presenting things to a team that can look different, and so like they function off attraction too. I'm like, okay, like how transparent are you? What are the types of things that you're sharing with them? You know, when you start talking about big numbers, then it's like, well, then you know, team members can be like, well, why am I not making X, Y, Z then? Well, it's because this much is actually going out to you all. And then there is our tech stack and our lease and our insurance and and and and and and and you know, into oblivion is like as a business owner, there's constantly stuff popping up that you need, you know, to pay for. And so, and then working with them. So I started working with general equipment before like John and I were ever even together. So funny, I don't know that I built that trust with their current executive team, which I think really helped. And, you know, for sure. I mean, have I ever been more all in? No, because I mean it's a direct impact to you know my family's life too. And so I mean, I care about all of our clients and I genuinely want all of their success, but that's obviously you know a different dynamic. And, you know, it's been an interesting transition because before I was heavily involved in it, you know, helping lead a lot of strategic pieces of it. And, you know, I'll I'll be pulled in when that needs to happen now. But really, Mint is kind of what I call their tactical team. Oh, sure. Uh, because they have a great, you know, marketing director now, and she's you know, filling that space that I was kind of playing in before, which I love because then it allows me to be the wife and necessarily like the yeah, whatever, you know, because I'm like sometimes they're I don't actually want to talk about this at home right now, or I'll be like, you know, a Texas marketing director, I'll be like, oh gosh, sorry, he brought this up, you know, whatever. Yeah, totally not going behind your back. It just came up in conversation. So those types of things the transparency, trust stuff, it's like, you know, whatever. And then if they have, you know, their whatever gripes about him, I'm like, I can guide you on that because I live with them. Yeah. So whatever that looks like too.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:31

So I think to the number of times Alyssa said to me, Nick, I need a husband right now, not a coach.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:36

You know, I I I just I just need you to listen. It's like, okay, thank you for saying that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:42

Well, that's great communication to be half because I probably am like, could like play initial expressions or sheer annoyance. So I'll take a lesson from Alyssa.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:52

Well, it took a while for us to get there because I mean I was doing it subconsciously, you know, just coming home from coaching all day and making decisions, and all of a sudden, you know, she starts talking about her day, and then I'm off to solving all her problems, and it's just like this is not nobody's happy here in that environment.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Yeah, like CEO mode.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

CEO mode in a business is not the same as it is in a family. So, you know, how are you leading your family? We're not, I mean, yeah, you can talk profit and loss, I guess, you know, kind of as uh your personal financial structure or whatever that looks like, but there's where I'm like, okay, can we just can we chill out and just actually Netflix and chill as they start? Exactly. Um, from that perspective, yeah. Kind of have that mindless space, you know, too. Because I'm like you, I love reading, but I don't like really have a lot of time necessarily to do that because I swear once my feet hit the ground, my child's like are also immediately behind me. And then even, you know, it's kind of like the nighttime routine. By the time she's down, I'm often spent, you know, too. And so I listen to podcasts almost every single morning when I'm getting ready.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:57

Like that's my any ones off the top of your head that are more uh more common than others.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

Gosh, so I kind of weave back and forth. One is the Kelly Roach show. She's got like eight different companies, um, just wicked smart. And then Andrea Johnston, she actually leads my I'm part of an agency mastermind group with a lot of agencies kind of across the United States. And she has a podcast called Women You I Want You To Know. Okay. Um, so I've been listening to that one more recently too. And then Jason, Jason Schwank. Um, he has an agency cool like podcast where he talks about kind of how he runs his agency, he had one, sold it off, and then he brings in other agency owners. So me just really trying to look at kind of the best practices because you know, when I was in working in agency world, that was a really long time ago. And so a lot has changed since then. Um, and I, you know, I have a pretty good pulse on you know, some other kind of agencies just based on conversations, you know, that we've had, but that agency mastermind has been super powerful in just what we've learned and you know, kind of pricing structure, all of that team members, 1099. What does that look like? National growth, because the gal that leads our mastermind, she sold her agency for 110 million dollars.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:15

Well, you should do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:16

So I'm like, cool, yeah. Yeah, you should do that. Yes. Well, it's like you know, you want people mentoring you that are way far, like beyond where you want to be. Like they've already done it, lived it, all of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:28

And so what do they say if you're the smartest if you're the smartest person in the room, find a different room?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:32

Correct. Yes. I am I'm a yeah, foracious learner. Yeah. So I want to make sure that's well, that's evident.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:38

It just in, you know, the little that I shouldn't say little up in the as much as I've known you uh above and beyond our conversation here today. It's like you you kind of know when you sit down with somebody to have a conversation, and it just sort of clicks, and you're just like you share some of the same interests, but you're trying to genuinely learn about somebody else and like a genuine curiosity. You clearly have a genuine curiosity. You touched on it right when we first started talking about who people are, why they do what they do, what makes them tick, which is right in my wheelhouse too. Why? Do you think that's just a just an inherence innate thing that you were born with? That's just the way you are. Do you think there was anything seminal that happened in your life in your in your upbringing that that puts you in that situation to be genuinely interested in others?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:19

I think I've been a genuine or like naturally like kind of caregiver or caring person, and maybe that does have to be with the oldest of four. You know, because it's kind of that natural hierarchical, you know, space of protection. So between my sister and I, it's four years, and then my brother Robert and I are 10, and then my youngest brother is 15 years between us, so it's a big um spread too.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:46

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:47

But yeah, so I think that um you know, growing up, you know, I was bullied from kindergarten through sixth grade for being fat and poor, like we did not have a lot of money growing up, and so like I think that too, like the empathy space, like I never wanted to be fat to anyone. Yeah, and so just understanding like it's not about you, it's about them. Yeah, you know, and I say that to my to the kids too, because there's been situations where you know things have been said to them or done to them or whatever that is, and I'm like, you know what, you don't know what their home life is like. It's one thing, obviously, if someone's like gonna be physical to you, no, that that's a different conversation. Then Moorhead Mandy does come out. I grew up in the old sketchy part of Moorhead. I don't know. It made me angry. John laughs, he's like, You are not, and I was like, No, I am.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:41

I was like, It's in there if we need it. Yeah, yeah, especially mom mode kicks in. Yes, all of it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

But no, I think that that curiosity piece has really always been there for me. And like I said, with my mom being such a good listen listener, I mean, just to the unconditional love. I mean, if there it was ever a person to find it, it's her, you know, for all of us kids. And so, you know, what does that look like in business? You know, because I I do love my team members, I do genuinely care about them. That's not weird for me to say, you know, either. I'm good with it. Like if anyone else thinks it's weird, cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:19

And it's not for everybody, right? Right. And that's what I'm gathering from you too, because we said a lot of the same stuff on my team. Like, hey, you know, we lead with love. We too we we we say that to each other from time to time, right? And I don't expect everybody to do that. That's certainly not just because I prefer that, you know, and I I I open myself up in that regard, doesn't mean that you have to, but it's there for you if you want it. Yes. Or need it. Yeah, right? Absolutely. I don't want you to feel like you have to be part of that environment. Or well, you're part of the environment. I don't feel like you have to engage in that way, but you can.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:52

It's here for if you want it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:54

Well, even one of our most recent team members, so she works remote in Bismarck and came for our team retreat. So I had, you know, I had lunch with her when I interviewed her in Bismarck, but then, you know, we were whatever, hanging out at a lunch place. So then she came to the office. I'm like, okay, so are you a hugger or not a hugger now? Like, let's let's level set on that. And she's like, no, I'll hug. I was like, no, not I'll hug.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:17

Do you want to hug?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

She's like, well, yeah. I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:21

So it's funny, there's a difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:22

I was like, ah, you know, the listening. I'm like, words matter. I'll do it, and then I'll cringe and like get all weird about it. It's like, no, that's not what I'm forcing you. Not forcing a hug on you.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:32

Yeah, I don't want to hug you if you're uncomfortable. Like the goal, yeah, yeah. That's funny. But but most leaders wouldn't even ask that question.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:38

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:39

You know, yeah. And and now that I look back on it, I should, I'm a hugger. I so my I have two older sisters, 10 and 12 years older, right? So I had three moms, basically, is what I grew up with. So I was doted on. I was, you know, but it was like it was a very wonderful environment in that regard where there was a lot of, you know, f just physical, you know, connection.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:00

Connection.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:00

You know, like hugs instead. That's I don't know. It sounds a little weird to say out loud.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:03

It's not, but that's how my whole family was growing up too.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:07

And so I always just immediately go in for the hug. And you can certainly tell some people that are just like, whoa, you know, it's like, sorry, my bad. Yeah, so I really don't mean to invade your personal space. I just yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, okay. You and John are sitting at a dinner table, you're having conversations about your businesses, right? You're you're you're working towards not only raising, you know, the the daughter that you guys have together, but you know, I know David Marcus. David's what 20, 21 now, right in there. 20.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:37

Yeah, we're actually taking him to Vegas for his 21st birthday this July. Yeah, on weekend's eight. It's gonna be the best time ever.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:46

It's gonna be incredible. So he's 20, Mark is what, 17, 18?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:50

Yeah, so he'll be 18 this month.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:51

Okay, wow, wow, wow, awesome. So and then your daughter is six, yes, right. So you have a large gap in what the kids are, for lack of a better way to say it, bringing home with them every day. If you had to provide any sort of advice or any thoughts or lessons learned to individuals that might not be in the exact same scenario that you're in as a business owner, as you know, somebody that's growing people professionally, but also growing people personally. Any one or two things come to mind?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:20

I would say definitely take the time to connect without phones. I mean, we were at, you know, we took the boys to the Timberwolves game on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

Oh fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:30

And they were like all into the stats and whatever. And I was like, all right, figure it out, and then your phones are done. Like we're gonna talk and hang out. Like, yeah, I will force you actually to do that. But it wasn't really, you know. But then once we were at the game, I mean it is, you know, that connection piece. But again, we're actually asking conversations, it's not or asking questions, excuse me. It's not super official, you know, type of stuff. Like we know them deeply as humans, like what makes them tick, what sets them off, you know, kind of all of that. And I think that's one of the biggest things too. And then it was really important for us to spend time with just them and not with Evi. Sure, you know, we took her to New York City, you know, did all that, and then we went on a Disney cruise because the boys were on their spring break, you know, with their mom this year. And, you know, when you have a six-year-old around talking with her there is hard, you know, there's constant interjections and all of that. And so I think just really understanding too that the boys need that. She needs her alone time, you know, too. She'll be like, Mom, can you know, can we have a girls' morning or a girls' day or whatever that looks like?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:37

Which would be every day if we talked to her. I don't care. And maybe you too, right? But yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:43

Um, but just yeah, so that connection piece and because yeah, we are in the era of freaking phones and iPads and iPad, like, oh, just I, I, I, everything, you know, and I never thought of it that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:57

It's just how much can I consume today? You know, so and not how much can I give to others, how much can I consume?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:04

Yeah, that's yeah, and the what's super I mean, the boys are so great, and I think this just is naturally how they are, but they're so good with their younger siblings. Evi, the other day when we were talking in the car on the way to school, she's like, You want to know what? She's she's deeply feeling that Marcus is not gonna be in the house. Like she's already sad that Dave is gone in Bismarck, but she goes, You know, mom, when Marcus is happy, like I'm really happy. And so I'm like, Okay, you look at that age spread, but she's deeply connected to them.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:35

Yeah, she's not a sociopath, obviously. So that's what it's like. She has empathy. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:42

Oh, yeah, she's a deep, oh my gosh, yeah. No, she's like the opposite of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:46

Um I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I don't know. Just levity, you know. But there's those times as a parent where you're just, you know, you hear all the I shouldn't even say horror stories, but just the realities that that can present themselves as a parent, and you're like, okay, that's good. That's a good sign. It's in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:02

Oh, no, no apology. I'm probably one of the most unoffendable people.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:07

Okay, well, next time you're on, we'll test that. Yeah, we'll test it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:10

Yeah, but so that would be the connection piece, would be my biggest thing of advice. And I think even too, you know, we have a big spread in my own family, like I said, my youngest brother being 15 years younger than me and you know, living in the same town. I don't see him a ton, you know, just because we're it's like everybody's doing life, but just checking in, you know, on him, and he's like, you know, that really means a lot to me. That you're even like sending me the text message, like, I know you're busy, I know you're doing all the things, but you know, I know you care, and that's ultimately what matters.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:40

Why mint?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:41

The name?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:42

Oh my gosh, we just had this conversation the other night at home. Um, so when you mint something, you create it or produce it. Like you think like you're minting your coin.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:50

And then two, when I was talking about it when well, gosh, yeah, four and a half, five years ago, when we did the full rebrand, the boys were like, Oh yeah, that's mint. Like, that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:01

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:02

It's like, oh yeah, like I'm on to something. So this, this is it. So, but it really foundationally came from when you mint something, you create it or produce it, which is ultimately

Naming Brands With Real Meaning

SPEAKER_00 1:26:11

what we're doing every single day. And then also the take of like minty fresh, so like fresh ideas, kind of that spark, those types of things. So it's got a lot of little meanings with yeah, no, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:21

I was, I was, I was curious about that. When when you're going through that process with a client, is that is what you just described there, is that part of the process, right? Where you're just kind of like if you don't mind just kind of describing that a little bit, because that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

Like naming is one of my favorite things to do with clients and like companies and things like that. And so it obviously depends if it's you know a big company or kind of solopreneur or whatever you know the business is, you know, from that perspective. But again, just the deeper, you know, conversations, like what kinds of words resonate with you? What are an absolute hell no? I'm not touching that, it sounds corny, you know, whatever that looks like. I love like the meanings, you know, of words. So, as an example, my one client, we named her business moon glade, and so it's a Nordic thermocycling. So sauna, cold plunge, mineral bath, all of that. And so throughout the process, we were going through a ton of different words that resonated with her, and then things kind of happened too in our world where she sent me this picture that I loved of her, and it was the moon shining off of the water, and then she was like her profile was in it. And I'm like, what is that called when it does that? Well, it's a moon glade, and so that's kind of how it all came about, and there's just a ton of meaning around like, yes, what physically a moon glade is is the reflection of the moon off the water, but she's like, That is it, and so now she is one of the ones that's going through a cancer treatment and in the process of selling the business, but she will not sell the brand. like that is me it is it like that that cannot be like taken or replicated and that for me was like oh that is such a gift like that I can give to her yeah that she had something like that that's like no one's touching that that's the work that I want to do that's incredible I love doing that's incredible well thanks for sharing that yeah yeah that that cuts deep I mean that's something that you know is core right what I'm what I'm hearing anyway I mean it's it's personal yes but it's it's it's more than that if that makes any sense right and you know going back a little bit to lessons learned or think about branding whether it's an organization or an individual what not to do what not to do don't have decision by committee oh okay there you go or depending upon how big that committee is because my lord we have gotten into you know round 17 18 19 whatever of logos because that core group just could not get their shit together you know on their end and so those are also questions that we ask when we are going to start working with clients or vetting clients it's like hey how many decision makers are in the mix you know are you gonna be asking your entire family even though they're not in the business I mean just because we've been through it. So that's one of the biggest things and I've also seen it where I had a client it just the second I saw it I got an anxiety and I don't even have anxiety but she put the logos like up on Facebook for just the masses to decide and I'm like they don't have any context what are we doing so I immediately text her I was like take that down right now.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:54

Yeah yeah yeah you're not playing that game so yeah that's looking for that external validation right which which is not it yeah yeah because they're not they're not even your audience right right you know I'm like it's one thing if you're focus grouping things like that's a whole nother different deal though that's a different exercise the randos on the internet no we do not care because there's such a um uh never mind I was just gonna say I I gave up Facebook about five six years ago and the the only thing the only reason I haven't completely deleted my account is because I like the birthday emails oh yeah so so it's birthday it's like there we go then I'll I'll put my calendar and I'll shoot him a text or whatever. Yeah anyway it's just tangent there.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:37

Yeah love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:38

Anything we haven't talked about today that you want to to discuss that we might have missed?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:43

Not that I can think of no I feel good. I mean it was like business family kind of culture space growing the business. If you had any words of wisdom well let me uh usually do a couple quick hit questions with with most of the guests what's the best advice you've ever been given when I worked for a healthcare organization someone told me it's just marketing which I think can minimize marketing and we're not like

Best Advice And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 1:31:12

saving people's lives you know because there were some times where people were so stressed like what are what are we doing? This is not healthy and we work for like a healthcare organization. So hello yeah yeah um but it's like the that perspective piece it's like we're doing really important work we're helping build businesses intentionally that's super important to me I don't take that lightly and you know if a client comes back and they're like I don't like that like we cannot internalize that let it fester it's like take it you know for what it's worth ask more clarifying questions and move. You know it's again if I sit and ruminate on everything like we're not gonna accomplish anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:56

So that's interesting. So just touching on that real quick one of the things I've talked a lot about with my team over the years and and individuals that I've worked with is you know what we'd say things like you are not your number you know from a sales perspective. Meaning you know your identity is not what you sell in a year. Right. How do you juxtapose that I mean truly being a brand builder for yourself and others right yes like it sort of is your identity but it's not like how like it's a very fine line from what I gather. How do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:28

Yeah well and I think you know from like I said when I think of mint yeah and then I think of me there's pieces of mint in me. I foundationally started it and it shows up a little bit differently than me. Makes sense like when I think of the content that we're putting out there you know it's like it's intentional like we're you know education we're we're learning our audience too like what they crave what type of engagement you know is happening whereas on the personal side of things yes I'm looking at some of that analytics piece and you know seeing what resonated longer form content, shorter form content, you know, kind of all of that you know and I handled them differently from that perspective. Again it's me and then over here it's a team. I don't want to be about me. I want it to be about our team and our clients and that's ultimately too why I I rebranded because I wanted that fresh kind of start you know for the business. And so like John's even talked about that he's I'm like oh my gosh you know like I want to be here blah blah blah he's like you have you do realize you're kind of like a startup again in a way because you didn't have the team before. So that looks completely different than you rolling solo but kind of doing whatever you need to do to get it done.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:46

Which is very accurate. So it's a completely different yeah yeah that's really interesting to me. When when people experience you or your leadership or your organization what do you want them to feel I want them to genuinely feel cared for.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:10

That's I mean they're investing a lot of money into the work that we're doing. So that's where when I was like ooh that piece of advice of is just marketing I could totally be shooting myself in the ass right now with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:22

Yeah but with the appropriate context it makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:24

Yes you know and so but that like the that space where again like we're asking those questions we had a client recently come over to us about four months ago and had our first kind of like big strategy onboarding meeting with them and they said you know we learned more in the first five minutes of this meeting than we did with who we were with for the last like year and a half and I'm like okay more about what? About marketing oh just in general yeah how it should be like educating them on everything, you know, kind of like analytics what what actually matters you know what doesn't and then two I said you know we're not we're not here to just be the yes people like I'm gonna plenty of those you know if you are saying we should do this and I'm like whoa nope and here's why but then I'm gonna ask some more clarifying questions. Like I I push back a lot of times with clients when they're like let's do this or let's do that you know whatever that looks like why why what are we doing?

SPEAKER_04 1:35:19

Well and that's actually what they're paying for. Correct they're not paying for I mean they can find yes women yes men everywhere they go if you want to especially you know you get big large organizations or big egos or whatever it might be. I mean you everyone can find a yes person. Yes you're actually paying for somebody to tell you nope. Yeah that ain't right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:36

So and I think too which I did a post on this on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago but I think when you talked about kind of branding it's like oh it was cool and like this thing that everybody should be doing and it's like kitschy and like how edgy can you get and you know that's I think to a lot of like what people think agencies are like we're just trying to pump out the coolest create you know craziest creative thing. And like yes there are those moments and you know at least for us there's a lot more happening behind the scenes than oh yeah just that you know kick ass logo that we created. Yeah we have those moments absolutely but we're having a lot like I said deeper conversations around that and understanding teams too it's like sales and marketing you know you being in the sales arena oftentimes those two departments or areas are clashing and so that's another you know area where it's like how can we make sure that that's not happening and get sales you know to trust us. I mean even like General Equipment was a prime example you know of that. It's like a male you know kind of dominating industry. And it's like what do you know about this? Well I only know as much as you tell me and what I can find in research. So it's like back to communication yes I can't help you more than your customers at the most optimal level. So let's get our freaking egos out of the room and do the thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:00

Yeah yeah I mean help me help you right good well thanks for sharing that I think that's that's fascinating just the the the entire I one thing I'm gonna process after our conversation here today is just the the way in which you described eloquently the difference between a personal identity and like a brand identity you know there is overlap but it's not in an entirety. Right and man it gets it gets me thinking of of you know some of the individuals that you'll see on TV you know you think like Kardashians. It's like is do they even know the difference between who they are as a person and what they are as a brand do they even know the differences you know what I mean my estimation would be that's somewhat unhealthy, right? But I also don't have a billion dollars in the bank because of it. So you know I I have not worn those shoes.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:46

Me either as high as my heels are for any given day.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:51

Well I don't mean to pass judgment on people's shoes I've never worn but you get my point right you know there's and then and then you have those other I shouldn't say other individuals but there are individuals then that are just they are so closed off for whatever reason to injecting any of themselves into their work.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:10

And that's fascinating to me too right because it's something there's a reason for that right and and what are you giving up because of that? What are you not allowing you or your team to be able to see feel smell touch taste about what's possible how much are you holding yourself back and you know there's no real answers to that everyone's an individual but those are the types of things that I I process at night for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:34

Well yeah it's like you talk about just the whether it's imposter syndrome or things that have happened you know in your past I mean there's been some really crappy things that have happened you know to me over my career and I'm like hey how can I take that learn from it make sure I never do that for my team I'm never I'm never that for my team or I'm never that for a client and I'm super grateful for every role that I've had throughout my career, every interaction that I've ever had because it it truly has brought me to now and I have a way different lens or lenses that I look through things with because of all of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:13

Yeah. Yeah and and you've touched on it too somewhat in closing you know what do you stand for? What do you stand against right? And the only I from what I can tell the only way an individual can really truly arrive at those things are experience right and their willingness to look back called look down the mountain, right? It's like you, you know, there's not an easy way to climb a mountain but sometimes you just got to stop look down and be like, oh this is what we accomplished this is this is where we are today right this is our current state this is our desired state is there an easier way to get there right you're looking around you're seeing people climbing that same mountain it's like well how'd that girl get all the way up there so fast? Like maybe I should have a conversation with her. You know she's got something figured out yes yeah yeah so you know all that stuff is really interesting because there isn't for lack of a better way to put it you know there's not one way to skin the cat but those shared experiences and the the willingness to learn what other people have done successfully and not to be so prideful right to be able to take that into a next next experience and be like okay I know what I want to be I know what I don't want to do which is equally as important. I think of it too from a parenting perspective for example, you know with with my with my father it's just like I know the dad that I I want to try to be but there are also very small parts parts like I know the dad I don't want to be right and it's like okay how do we figure that out I know the leader that I want because I've had various different leaders I I know the leader that I don't want to be because I've had those types of leaders too well then what do we do with that information right yes take it turn it and live it out I think is you know the biggest thing and to sharing sharing those experiences.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:13

But then also you know from that personal perspective too. It's like okay what like I I always say I'm not Evy's gonna make her own mistakes the boys are going to make their own mistakes I'm gonna share mine with them though I don't ever want to have them put me on a pedestal that isn't like deserved or earned or whatever you know from that perspective because I just hopefully don't want them to make my mistakes because I've made enough you know over the years. And so I think that that too helps raise just better kids more well-rounded like emotionally and self-aware. Yeah you know self-aware too so it's like when I kind of when I think they're ready because there's always there's been those moments where I've shared things with the boys and they're like oh my gosh like I never would have thought that or I didn't know that about you. And like you wouldn't unless I shared it. And so like that's why I'm doing it now.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:05

Yeah. That's fascinating. Well Amanda Schilling thank you so much for taking the time with us here on the Time and Energy podcast. I really really appreciate it. You're crushing it personally and professionally a lot of really wise words and comments that I know I'll take with me and I and hopefully our listeners do too and I'm sure they will but thank you let's do it again. Yes love it I really appreciate it. All right thanks you too